tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3735231846682543393.post8625276509603188787..comments2023-10-10T10:17:57.063+01:00Comments on Queer Saints and Martyrs (and Others): Cross-Dressing MonksTerencehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07504439119402756448noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3735231846682543393.post-12366633568553139102011-09-02T22:44:07.145+01:002011-09-02T22:44:07.145+01:00Agreed,Sophia. Agreed, agreed 0 - on several count...Agreed,Sophia. Agreed, agreed 0 - on several counts.<br /><br />It's absolutely NOT necessary to stick with the sanitized, authorized list of officially designated saints. The modern business of approval for canonization is just that - an astonishingly complex business, with big money involved, and has nothing to do with the original institution of recognizing saints by acclamation. As you correctly say, the chances are nil that the Vatican will officially approve any MTF (or FTM) or other distinctly queer saints - not for a long time to come. The story of Mychal Judge, whom we will be remembering next week, makes that clear. In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, there were numerous calls for this priest to be canonized for his heroic self-sacrifice - but these calls dried up the instant it became public knowledge that he was gay.<br /><br />So, we must find and name our own. It would be good to find someone fitting the description you suggest, but I don't think we need to go even that far. Not every victim of a hate crime murder merits the description of "saint" - but in my view, they most certainly warrant being designated "martyr". The word is usually applied to those who have been killed in witness to their Christian faith, but we now recognize Joan of Arc as a martyr: martyred not for the church, but by the church.<br /><br />Somewhere in all the hate crime murders, lies an hostility promoted and fostered by the church's disordered teaching on sexuality. Every single hate crime victim can thus be seen as (indirectly) martyred by the church.<br /><br />I've been rather neglecting this site recently, but have been wanting to give it more attention. I like your suggestion of doing some digging to make our own saints. I will do my part by posting material on a wide range of MTF or FTM "martyrs". My readers can help by suggesting any additional material they are aware of, that might justify seeing them as not only martyred, but saintly.Terencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07504439119402756448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3735231846682543393.post-91687939102170918502011-09-02T20:06:46.508+01:002011-09-02T20:06:46.508+01:00Okay - no MTF saints can be found among those who ...Okay - no MTF saints can be found among those who actually got canonized -- but we all know, you don't have to actually be canonized to be a saint. Surely there's got to be some MTF saints who *aren't* canonized!<br /><br />Problem is -- not only such saints aren't canonized - but a MTF saint would probably have so little written about her, that it would be unlikely that we'd even know about her at all!<br /><br />So, maybe it's ti me that we start *investigating* the possibility? Coz let's face it -- the Vatican aint going to do this investigation for us.<br /><br />Information may be scant - but at least we can start looking!<br /><br />For example --- obviously, just being a victim of a hate crime doesn't make anyone a saint - not by a longshot. However -- we should still investigate these victims anyway.<br /><br />For example ---- what if there's someone among these victims who could have kicked her assailant in the nut-sack and possibly gotten away -- but instead, chose to pray for him? And what if this happened after she had been living a holy and Christian life (even if not in the same gender-role that the doctors identified her at birth)? If we could find a victim of hate-crimes who fit this profile --- I'm sure a good case could be made for regarding her as a martyr - even if the Pope never will in our lifetime on Earth.Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02326313591039387370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3735231846682543393.post-71354086320311240142010-11-13T00:00:23.847+00:002010-11-13T00:00:23.847+00:00Thanks, Alexandra - but I don;t think the list is ...Thanks, Alexandra - but I don;t think the list is by any means complete. I'm still working on it, and in particular, attempting to find more specific bio details for each of them.<br /><br />There's a simple reason why we have FTM examples, but no MTF: the much higher esteem that was given to men, which created an incentive for women to pass themselves off as men, but not the other way around. I don;t yet known of any MTF examples among the recognized saints, but I do have one from the ranks of the clergy. have been aiming to write up a full post, but have been struggling to squeeze in the time to do a proper job, and locate more info than I have at present.<br /><br />In the meantime, you might like to do some net searches on the name "François-Timoléon de Choisy", who was a notable cross-dressing French abbé and priest.Terencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07504439119402756448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3735231846682543393.post-6042715049681492242010-11-12T20:42:32.279+00:002010-11-12T20:42:32.279+00:00Thank you for the link to the LGBT Catholic Handbo...Thank you for the link to the LGBT Catholic Handbook & for the complete list of the cross-dressing female born monks. Unfortunately, we do not have so many examples (if at all) of cross-dressing/transgender sisters troughout the history of the church...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com